and sometimes the three, so in the second informational interview, once you've done the exploration and you understand what you might want to do, what you can do, what skills are transferrable, then you figure out which industry, what company, and you talk to people in that industry to find out as much as you can about those specific options. >> for instance, who? the first one i get, friends, career advisers, who is my information interview? how do i find these people? >> career fairs, trade shows. still use your friends and family, but now you're saying i've identified a family, a company, even a specific opening, and i want to talk to somebody who can help me get to that place. i'm now identified, i want to work for cnn. >> so we've got the exploratory interview and the informational interview, and if you are thinking of changing careers, until you've hit those two, you're saying do not go for a job interview. >> don't get your soul searching on me. perception is reality.